|
|
|
|
|
Featured events . . .
| more... |
|
|
|
3/10/10
|
18 comments
Roswell City Council rejects prayer proposal
Updated Monday, March 15, 7:40 p.m: Betty Price's clarification of her quote in the original article is below. A proposal to begin Roswell City council meetings with prayer died in a council committee meeting Monday. Councilman Rich Dippolito was the first of five council members to express reservations. In his comments, he said prayer at gatherings where people choose to be there voluntarily is different than praying at meetings that are the only legal venue for certain public transactions. “I support prayer, but what concerns me is having belief-based prayer at a council meeting where people have to come to do business,” Dippolito said. “I’ve been approached in the grocery store. Everyone wants to talk about this. I’m surprised because I thought I’d get more people wanting to do prayer,” Diamond said. “But I now feel like some people are going to be uncomfortable every time we [pray], and I don’t know how to get around that. I just haven’t found the support for it.” Since it was reported last month that Councilwoman Betty Price had proposed an opening prayer at council meetings, the number of comments on this newspaper’s Web site exploded, with the overwhelming majority opposed. Wynn referenced those comments in voicing her concerns and added she had had the same experiences Diamond had mentioned. “I’ve found the same thing when I go out. Probably 80 percent of the people are saying to me no, don’t do it,” she said of instituting council prayer. “I would have a difficult time supporting this because I’m not seeing the support from our community to do it.” Councilman Jerry Orlans reported similar feedback. “I was a little surprised that certain people who were talking to me about it didn’t want it.” Mayor Jere Wood said based on what council members had just related, “I have decided not to move ahead [with the proposal]. I see both sides of the issue, but I certainly don’t want something that we would try to make a positive experience turn negative.” When the next agenda item was immediately called, Price interjected, asking for and then getting confirmation that the mayor was refusing to place the prayer issue on a formal council agenda for a vote. She said the Georgia Municipal Association’s guidelines for city meetings include opening prayer. “We might be a little more diverse in city size and scope than most GMA members,” Diamond said. Price also denounced blog comments as being unreliable because they are by nature anonymous and many of the authors may not even live in Roswell. “We have no right not to be offended,” Price said. “Being challenged would be a wonderful thing. Getting back to the roots of our country would be an even more wonderful thing.” Note: In the original article, The Neighbor took Councilwoman Betty Price's quote above to mean a legal challenge. Ms. Price says that was not her intended meaning and offered the following clarification: "Our Monday night Roswell City Council meetings are ceremonial affairs as well as business meetings. We start by honoring our country with the pledge of allegiance, and then we issue proclamations, and we honor athletes, we honor scholars, we honor heroes, and we even honor award-winning roosters. We also see people unlike ourselves and we do them honor for their actions and service. Sometimes the room is full of people who come for a variety of reasons including entire scout troops who come to witness our example as adults who encourage and inspire them. But surprisingly, at these meetings, we fail to honor the God who has specially created each of us, unique and different. We pledge allegiance to a nation under God, yet we seem to be fearful to utter God’s name. Sometimes that fear to mention God is a profound ignorance of the world as it was before these United States were founded on the bold concept that all men are created equal by God. Our founding fathers led forth from the idea that people have the God-given freedom to make opportunities and choices for themselves and should not be relegated mere subjects or slaves to a ruling class. “We the People” gave power to the ordinary citizen to affect the governance of the country and to avoid having tyrannical despots over them. Over the years, we may have forgotten the true source of our power. Now we see a fear of honoring God that really just shows our reluctance to submit to a greater power than our inflated sense of self importance. Sometimes that fear of God is a resistance that we may have to conduct our lives by a moral code we do not wish to embrace. Sometimes a group may have the anomalous fear that they will offend someone who does not wish to honor God. Our founding fathers were not afraid of this. They understood that the shaping of our nation was by the hand of God and the founders’ faith was paramount as they pledged their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. If you visit the national monuments you will see the name of God carved in marble over and over. Moses and the 10 commandments are chiseled into the Supreme Court walls. Thomas Jefferson attended religious services the entire length of his presidency that were actually held in the U.S. Capitol building. "President Lincoln’s 2nd inaugural address refers to God more than a dozen times. The U.S. House and Senate each employ chaplains and start their days with a short invocation. The Georgia General Assembly has guest preachers who start each day with a brief invocation. Even the Georgia Municipal Association, of which the City of Roswell is a member, provides a sample meeting agenda that includes starting with an invocation. Why then are we afraid to invoke the blessings of God onto our proceedings? Are we so thin-skinned or lacking in personal conviction that we think it will hurt us? Are we so intolerant that we would refuse to listen to someone else for a few moments? Are we blind to the light? "I am shocked at the erroneous reporting by the Roswell Neighbor that I would somehow welcome a legal challenge to our city and subject its citizens to a costly and distracting lawsuit by inviting a legal proceeding against us. On the contrary, the legal research done was to show clearly that the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Pelphrey v. Cobb County has already provided us a precedent and decision in our same jurisdiction that unmistakably allows a broad application of invocations at public meetings. "Do I wish to protect our city? Of course I do! First and foremost I seek the protection and guidance of a gracious God. I would also like to protect the city from a frivolous, grandstanding lawsuit. "That is why the research into the applicable laws and rulings on the subject of invocations was essential. I am confident that a competent lawyer would not wish to engage against the city if we adhered a policy similar to the approved procedures used by the Cobb County Commission to ensure that a variety of faith traditions have the opportunity to participate in offering an invocation. Our community is diverse and has a variety of faiths. We must be as inclusive as the different organized faiths are prevalent in our city. The challenge that I welcome is not a legal challenge, but the challenge to each of us to examine our foundations, both as a nation and as individuals, to face our prejudices with an open mind, to recapture the strength of conviction of our founding fathers, and to welcome our neighbors of good will and engage these diverse leaders of our faith community in working with us as we attempt to solve the problems of the city. How enriching, illuminating and productive this could be. "All members of the Roswell community are welcome to come to any 5th Monday Roswell City Council meetings that are entirely devoted to public comment. March 29th at 7:30 P.M. is the next one."
|
|
I commend the council members for listening to reason and not kowtowing to those promoting their religious agendas. I'm especially pleased to hear that council members have listened to their constituents and taken onboard the public response to this issue. This shows local government working as it should, in the best interests of the people they represent. Well done Messrs Dippolito, Orlans, Igleheart, and Mesdames Diamond and Wynn.
Thanks for this decision.
No big deal really, if settled in this amicable way. If it had passed; I'd simply wait until you are finished with "formalities" to join the meeting.
Betty's vision of a legal battle concerns me.
Peter S. Morgan, Jr.
11775 Wildwood Springs Drive
I agree with Peter Morgan. Has Mrs. Price become a City Council Member to sow seeds of discontent on how business has been and will be conducted in the future? I sure hope not. Roswell has more pressing problems that need to be solved. I guess God does listen to prayer because mine was answered when the City Council rejected this idea. Thanks to City Council for listening to your constituents. Now on to the business of Roswell.
I would also like to commend the City Council’s decision to listen to its constituents and reject the prayer proposal introduced by Betty Price. I have no objection to saying prayers under appropriate circumstances, but the opening of a City Counsel Meeting is not one of them. Indeed, the “roots” or core values to which Mrs. Price refers, include a very important legal doctrine called “separation of church and state” — a phrase introduced by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 when describing the meaning of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. I hope that Mrs. Price sees the incongruousness of her proposal and refrains from embroiling the City Counsel in a messy legal battle over a concept based on such an “un-American” ideal.
Congratulations to the Council members on making the correct decision.
I'm concerned that Betty Price tried to introduce this practice under the guise of an innocent attempt to:
"..set the overall tone to one of reconciliation and better relations."
yet, when clear objections from constituents were raised her tone became somewhat more aggressive and belligerent:
“We have no right not to be offended,” Price said. “Being challenged [legally] would be a wonderful thing. Getting back to the roots of our country would be an even more wonderful thing.”
She wants a legal confrontation! This shows Betty Price's real intent, she is not at all concerned with "reconciliation and better relations", she wants to enforce her brand of religion on our City irrespective of the citizens concerns.
So now we know the agenda of Mrs. Betty Price for her tenure on the Roswell City Council. She wants a legal challenge to her rejected proposal of prayer at the City Council Meetings. She has been on council less than 6 months and wants to put the city into a legal battle over a non issue. Mrs. Price, the city taxpayers have spoken and they dont want you spending their money on legal fees. We have other bills to pay.
I'm glad to see common sense prevail. Thomas Jefferson would be proud of you. Thank you for this decision, it's much, much, much appreciated.
We applaud Councilman Dippolito and the other four council members who rejected the proposal to open meetings with a prayer. There is no disrespect intended or implied to religious groups to restrict the city's business to thoughtful, non-religious discussion. There is a good reason for separating Church and State...it simplifies things.
Larry & Lois Curry
I commend Roswell readers for communicating with the Council on this 'prayer before meetings' issue. I am disappointed that a new Council member, Betty Price, would use her influence to introduce a measure that would create unnecessary problems for the Council and the city. Prayer should not be a 'forced' practice---it would lose any benefits as a requirement. Silent prayer is always an option to praying aloud. It's time that 'believers' live their prayers that they are welcome to pray in their minds, at home, and at their freely chosen places of worship.
“Being challenged [legally] would be a wonderful thing." ???? Is she kidding? She wants Roswell to spend money on a lawsuit for this? Who exactly does she represent?
I commend the Neighbor for allowing Betty more than enough rope to entangle herself further. Thanks.
I am astounded by Betty Price's diatribe and exposition. She sounds like someone on a personal crusade to introduce religion where there has been none before. Her monologue above belies a great misunderstanding as to theistic backgrounds of our founding fathers.
To quote Jefferson:
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own."
I hope Roswell is not progressing towards a cozy relationship between despot and priest. Keep state and church separate.
Betty Price,
I am an atheist. You deeply offend me when you say 'Sometimes that fear of God is a resistance that we may have to conduct our lives by a moral code we do not wish to embrace.' You equate morality with religion, these two things are not mutually exclusive.
You display a profound lack of empathy to your constituents. Your latest comments hinge on rabble-rousing by making patriotic and jingoist proclamations that appeal to emotion yet are mostly erroneous; making untrue claims about our Founding Fathers. Please, stop this divisive nonsense now and focus on
doing your job, represent all your constituents collectively rather than pushing a religious agenda that excludes the non-religious.
I can appreciate the misunderstanding that might have resulted from Betty's remarks at the Council Committee meeting.
Her "clarification" could be interpreted as a call for her followers to pilgrimage to the fifth Monday open forum Council meeting, since she was unsuccessful in getting "honor the God who has specially created each of us" on the agenda. (Sorry I'll be in Maine on the 29th.) But let's be clear . . . she didn't say that directly.
As a frequent Council meeting attendee, it's been interesting to see occasions when groups appear for their moment. Most, I suspect, have never been to City Hall previously nor would expect to return. It would be interesting to query those on pilgrimage, how many had ever been to a meeting before. The point being; that if they are not regular meeting attendees . . .why does it matter how meetings are structured?
Betty discounts differing opinions as irrelevant. Bloggers don't live in Roswell, only competent lawyers would initiate action against the City (the incompetent wouldn't be significant) yet she claims to welcome diversity.
So, Betty will get her agenda discussed at Council . . . but with a significant majority of Councilmembers and a significant majority of constituents who contacted the other five Councilmembers tending not to support the prayer before meetings proposal, what's the point? Would the refusal of Roswell to honor Betty's God bring His disapproval to future business, residents and tourists?
What's the point?
"Our founding fathers led forth from the idea that people have the God-given freedom to make opportunities and choices for themselves and should not be relegated mere subjects or slaves to a ruling class. “We the People” gave power to the ordinary citizen to affect the governance of the country and to avoid having tyrannical despots over them."
I'm not sure what relevance this part has to prayer in Roswell City Council meetings.
" . . . founding fathers . . . should not be relegated mere subjects or slaves to a ruling class . . . "
While the Declaration 7/4/1776 made reference to equality, it wasn't until 1/1/1863 with Emancipation that Slavery (which the founding fathers engaged in and Betty infers didn't exist in this country) was abolished.
Doesn’t "make opportunities and choices for themselves" have relevance if Betty chooses to say so? The Citizens of Roswell spoke to the issue and the Council acted.
This appears to be so important to Betty and her small circle that it isn't over. If the "clarification" Betty authored was not a call to action at the fifth Monday Public Forum, we'll see how many misunderstood that detail and show up to demonstrate for her. (How will Betty protest that wasn't what she meant if the misunderstanding works in her favor?)
Oh! The legal challenge.
One would think that because Betty didn't initially advocate defense of a legal challenge to a prayer at City Council meetings, she wouldn't have prepared a legal brief. Since there is no reason to anticipate a legal challenge because a competent lawyer wouldn't petition for one and (since her "clarification" was drafted after the meeting prayer failed to be listed on the agenda) there is no motion before Council; why make so much of the "clarification" a basis for legal defense?
Yet, ". . . the pledge of allegiance . . . proclamations . . . athletes . . . scholars . . . heroes . . . roosters . . . people unlike ourselves . . . scout troops . . . founding fathers . . . national monuments . . . Moses . . . Supreme Court walls . . . Thomas Jefferson . . . U.S. Capitol building . . . President Lincoln’s 2nd inaugural address . . . U.S. House and Senate . . . Georgia General Assembly . . . Georgia Municipal Association . . . (and) the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals . . . " all in support of prayer in Roswell City Council meetings (I'm sure they are because they are used to support the position) are used as endorsements.
But the emphasis was not on preparations for a legal battle? I have to wonder.
(Betty gets extra credit for using "God" in a sentence fourteen times.)
Freedom of Religion means the right to practice whatever religion you wish, or to practice no religion at all. It also means that no man will be compelled to support any religious worship. Please exercise your Freedom of Religion outside of Government and please do not compel attendees of council meetings to support your religious worship.
Did you happen to notice the heavy viewing activity, Sunday morning, on the two "Neighbor" articles covering the prayer proposal at Roswell City Council meetings? Hmmmmm . . . .